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 Post subject: SD Combat
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:06 am 
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I know pretty much all about how ship to planet combat works. I know exactly what everything does and all, but I'm relatively in the dark about how SD combat works. I realize that there are a number of "rolls of the dice" thrown into the works, so that no one can simply sit down, do a little math, and calculate if they are are going to win or lose, which is certainly as it should be.

Also, I know you guys generally seem to be opposed to making the formulas public, I guess for the same reason, so that's alright, but I'd just like some pointers. Last round Tarnus said that only the highest fighter tech in a sector contributes to the number of fighters active in an AR attack, even though all the techs add to the number of fighters present. He also said it was public knowledge somewhere, but I'm going to have to say it clearly isn't, after the better part of an hour searching the forums.

So among my questions are: is that true? And also, what effects do sensors and cloak have? I'm pretty sure sensors make the fighters do more damage, and cloak makes them harder to kill, but how much so? Let's say all my fighters techs are equal on five planets. I need to upgrade sensors fourty techs higher to make it equal to the number of fighters. So for maximum damage should I do that? Are comparable sensors and fighters the way to go, or should sensors be even higher? I'm thinking like, is it multiplied.

I can't help but to compare this to a math problem. Say I've got this much cord to make a perimeter out of for a box. I will get maximum area in my box if I make a square rather than a rectangle; ie, if both dimensions are equal. Is it the same way for this?

So again, the most important question is the impact of sensors on the effectiveness of SD.



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 Post subject: Re: SD Combat
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:35 am 
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Valience wrote:
I know pretty much all about how ship to planet combat works. I know exactly what everything does and all, but I'm relatively in the dark about how SD combat works. I realize that there are a number of "rolls of the dice" thrown into the works, so that no one can simply sit down, do a little math, and calculate if they are are going to win or lose, which is certainly as it should be.

Also, I know you guys generally seem to be opposed to making the formulas public, I guess for the same reason, so that's alright, but I'd just like some pointers. Last round Tarnus said that only the highest fighter tech in a sector contributes to the number of fighters active in an AR attack, even though all the techs add to the number of fighters present. He also said it was public knowledge somewhere, but I'm going to have to say it clearly isn't, after the better part of an hour searching the forums.

So among my questions are: is that true? And also, what effects do sensors and cloak have? I'm pretty sure sensors make the fighters do more damage, and cloak makes them harder to kill, but how much so? Let's say all my fighters techs are equal on five planets. I need to upgrade sensors fourty techs higher to make it equal to the number of fighters. So for maximum damage should I do that? Are comparable sensors and fighters the way to go, or should sensors be even higher? I'm thinking like, is it multiplied.

I can't help but to compare this to a math problem. Say I've got this much cord to make a perimeter out of for a box. I will get maximum area in my box if I make a square rather than a rectangle; ie, if both dimensions are equal. Is it the same way for this?

So again, the most important question is the impact of sensors on the effectiveness of SD.


PJ will have to correct me if I am wrong anywhere

Sensors effect if your fighters detected the attack. Someone with high cloak and engines could in effect nullify and response you may have if your sensors are too low. So in effect all you did with low or no sensors was put up a wall that is easily chipped away no matter how many fighters you have.

Cloaking helps hide your fighters when attacking the attacker, they help some, not a huge amount but some, they can avoid the ECM.

SD Weapons level determines the highest amount of fighters that can attack you at any one time the higher the number the better, spreading this value across your planets only allow you to put more fighters out, it doesn't prevent them from being taken out.

For example say you have a 5X planet sector and a level 200 SDW will put out say 1 mill fighters.(This is not an accurate for the level just an example) SInce you have 5 planets you drop 5 mill fighters into the sector. Now when someone attacks, only the highest SDW level is taken into account so the number of fighters that will be called up to return the attack is only 1 mill. Doesn't hurt you to have extra so you have some reserve, but if the attacker has to means to avoid a level 200 return attack he doesn't have to worry as much.

As far as a formula, I do everything by gutt instinct and Probes if we had any (BIG HINT PJ!!!). I have no formulas when I play, I just use trial and error... I believe I have said this before somewhere. :)



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 Post subject: Re: SD Combat
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:56 pm 
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I thought for a moment I saw the word "Probe". Legends tell of a time when probes exsisted for the betterment of the universe, but those stories are just tales to tell our children so they can grow up with a sense of wonderment. I fear that probes were and have always been "just a dream" But just dreaming about probes causes one to be hopeful about the future of the universe.



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 Post subject: Re: SD Combat
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:07 pm 
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:ban: :ban: :ban: :ban: :ban: :ban: :ban: :ban: :ban:



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 Post subject: Re: SD Combat
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:42 pm 
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Panama Jack wrote:
:ban: :ban: :ban: :ban: :ban: :ban: :ban: :ban: :ban:



If someone would go fix his scooter for him, I imagine he will get probes done a whole lot faster :)



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 Post subject: Re: SD Combat
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:22 pm 
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Well, I just got the new belt installed. :rocker:

There was no way I was going to get the CVT and engine pully off without an impact wrench. I hated having to buy one but... oh well.

Now the scooter is runner better. ;)

Maybe I can get to work on that now.



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 Post subject: Re: SD Combat
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:41 pm 
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I remember reading the Sd Weapons/Sensor/Cloak information somewhere on here. I think it was in announcements. I have a link to the .30 AR calcs, but I don't know if it's still valid now we're at .31, but I'm assuming so. It seems odd to have those public, but not SD or Ship vs. ship. I don't know a thing about SOFA attacks. Novas I have vague guidelines for, but I haven't even tried yet.

I know ever since I started coming here I've been harping on about how unintuitive the game can be, but this is why. Everything is a stab in the dark. I've smashed my main ship against SD testing out AR, I've had my SGs repeatedly breached and riddled with spies because my SD was insufficient in number or sensors, and without any data to work with on Ship vs. Ship or Planet attacks I'm faced with risking billions every time I want to test something out on the offensive. The game expects me to know this stuff; it's pretty unforgiving. If I'm to attack anyone in my range, I'll need to be risking a fair percentage of my net worth. If I could just simulate some attacks, be able to run different numbers to get an idea of how it all works together, that'd probably be even better than a dry formula.

But I've got nothing to work with, so I have to keep laying my cards on the table and asking each of you "Is this hand any good?" and that makes me constantly transparent in the game.


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 Post subject: Re: SD Combat
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:49 pm 
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Without probes its awfully hard to know what your up against in SD. So what you have to do is look at who you are attacking and how experienced they are at setting SD. A good example is, if you see my home, be sure your gonna pay dearly if you try to breach it. :)



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 Post subject: Re: SD Combat
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:44 pm 
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What kind of information do probes give?

EDIT: And what made them stop working?


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 Post subject: Re: SD Combat
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:57 am 
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InstinctSage wrote:
What kind of information do probes give?

EDIT: And what made them stop working?


PJ decided to redo the code so we could have more of em... He just hasnt had a chance to finish em yet. I think probes are in the wiki, not a 100% sure since its been a while since we had em.... (HINT HINT, PJ PEOPLE ARE FORGETTING WHAT THEY DO!!!)



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 Post subject: Re: SD Combat
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:02 pm 
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lol, thanks for the responses. Sage, if you could give me the link to the AR formulas, that would be very helpful, so I could get a feel for everything.

I was under the impression that ugprading sensors made fighters do more damage, but I guess not. And thanks for pointing out that only the highest fighters are active at a given time. That helps a lot to know. :)



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 Post subject: Re: SD Combat
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:49 pm 
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DID I HEAR PROBES! :weird:


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 Post subject: Re: SD Combat
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:43 pm 
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The .30 AR calcs are in PJ's blog. Now I check it's 2 years old? Where the hell did I find that?
http://panamajack.aatraders.com/readblo ... 510#bottom

Tarnus wrote:
PJ decided to redo the code so we could have more of em... He just hasnt had a chance to finish em yet. I think probes are in the wiki, not a 100% sure since its been a while since we had em.... (HINT HINT, PJ PEOPLE ARE FORGETTING WHAT THEY DO!!!)

So there's no real reason why probes couldn't have stayed in while probes mkII were getting worked on? :???:


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 Post subject: Re: SD Combat
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:21 am 
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Yeah, that's quite old and a little outdated, but still helpful.

I noticed this from the blog below it about space plague code...

"Tu planeta [name] en el sector [sector] ha sido golpeado por una plaga espacial. El [percentage] por ciento de de los colonos fueron asesinados."

lol! Space plagues assassinate colonists! That's a good one.

"Your (informal; should probably be su instead of tu) planet [name] in the sector [sector] has been beaten by a space plague. The [percentage] percent of of the colonists were (killed? assassinated is a better translation)."

I think estado might be better than using sido. Sido is the permanent for of "be". Yo soy alto is I am tall. Yo estoy enfermo is I am sick. You use estoy because it's not permanent, and estado is the participle form of estar.

:P If you all would like, I could try playing the game in Spanish and proof reading your stuff. I'm not quite fluent, but I can at least correct grammar and stuff.

Here's this for staters

"No se modificó la contraseña.

Shipname changed to Semper In Angaria.

Home Planet: None

El idioma ha sido cambiado a Español.
Template has been set to Alien Assault Traders Menu Dropdown.

Local and Galaxy Map Width: 50"

That's supposed to be Spanish :P



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 Post subject: Re: SD Combat
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:33 am 
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InstinctSage wrote:
The .30 AR calcs are in PJ's blog. Now I check it's 2 years old? Where the hell did I find that?
http://panamajack.aatraders.com/readblo ... 510#bottom

Tarnus wrote:
PJ decided to redo the code so we could have more of em... He just hasnt had a chance to finish em yet. I think probes are in the wiki, not a 100% sure since its been a while since we had em.... (HINT HINT, PJ PEOPLE ARE FORGETTING WHAT THEY DO!!!)

So there's no real reason why probes couldn't have stayed in while probes mkII were getting worked on? :???:


Other than the fact he broke it while he was converting them to all classes, he could have left em. Now we will just have to stand on his front lawn with pitchforks and torches and chant "Where are the probes, where are the probes!!!"



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