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 Post subject: Status of Main
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:07 pm 
AA Warrior
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This is a reality check. I'm not really trying to take sides (though I suppose I am by posting this). I'm just trying to draw your (TH + PJ's) attention to the facts.

2 rounds ago the game was heavily abused by the Horseman.

Starting 2 rounds ago, you made very large changes to the way the game worked, specifically bounties. You made even more changes last round. The Horseman's style of play was thought to discourage new players. I think I agree with that. The changes were meant to stop the Horseman's style of play, thus encouraging new players.

Last game, the game ended with 58 players if memory serves. A friend of mine, Kyuubi, who has been around a little longer than me, but is by no means an "old timer," remembers the good days when the game had around 250 people in it.

So, the population has been cut by 4/5. Maybe part of that can be attributed to the Horseman and similar teams. I don't know. But the fact is, so far, the changes are not helping to bring more new players.

So what have the changes done?

Where did Ak5 go? Spar7an is gone. I haven't seen KZ in a game in a while. Who knows if AB is going to continue playing much? It doesn't seem he will. Oaky seems to have stopped playing seriously. Big said to me explicitly last round that since the recent changes, he is no longer nearly as serious about the game. Kyuubi has not played seriously in a while. Max (I know a personal enemy to some of you, but still a valuable and experienced player) is gone. Even PP is gone, but I don't think that can be blamed on the changes. Meanwhile, more and more experienced players become less enthusiastic about the game as enjoyable aspects such as attacking become harder and less profitable.

I value each of these experienced players at least as much as ten to twenty new, inconsequential players. Maybe it's mean of me to say that, and disparaging to the new guys, but it's true. These guys mix it up in the top rankings, they give each other a run for the money, and they are great to play against. They're the shining stars of AAT. Experienced, skilled, established players are the people who make the game fun, and there are fewer and fewer of them every round.

I'm not screaming "Repeal the changes," though you all do know that there are a few things that I don't agree with. I'm not saying everything you've done is wrong, but I am saying that, whether it was a good idea or not, it doesn't seem to be working.

And something else to consider: A ship you all put into the game, the excelsior, has become all but obsolete. It is only useful at the very end of a game for the highest players in the rankings. Otherwise, techs past the capacity of a voyager are simply unattainable. And now, with shorter rounds (albeit accelerated) rounds, the Excelsior's future looks even more bleak. Maybe the ship will get some use in the last week of the round, but I wouldn't expect much more than that.



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 Post subject: Re: Status of Main
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:26 pm 
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Valience wrote:
This is a reality check. I'm not really trying to take sides (though I suppose I am by posting this). I'm just trying to draw your (TH + PJ's) attention to the facts.

2 rounds ago the game was heavily abused by the Horseman.

Starting 2 rounds ago, you made very large changes to the way the game worked, specifically bounties. You made even more changes last round. The Horseman's style of play was thought to discourage new players. I think I agree with that. The changes were meant to stop the Horseman's style of play, thus encouraging new players.

Last game, the game ended with 58 players if memory serves. A friend of mine, Kyuubi, who has been around a little longer than me, but is by no means an "old timer," remembers the good days when the game had around 250 people in it.



What everyone forgets is when we had 250 players, there wasnt a purge. Players may have been in the game months and months without playing. The purge shows active players. At the end of the round alot of players had bailed out due to school, work or other commitments, we see it happen every year.


Quote:
So, the population has been cut by 4/5. Maybe part of that can be attributed to the Horseman and similar teams. I don't know. But the fact is, so far, the changes are not helping to bring more new players.

So what have the changes done?

Where did Ak5 go? Spar7an is gone. I haven't seen KZ in a game in a while. Who knows if AB is going to continue playing much? It doesn't seem he will. Oaky seems to have stopped playing seriously. Big said to me explicitly last round that since the recent changes, he is no longer nearly as serious about the game. Kyuubi has not played seriously in a while. Max (I know a personal enemy to some of you, but still a valuable and experienced player) is gone. Even PP is gone, but I don't think that can be blamed on the changes. Meanwhile, more and more experienced players become less enthusiastic about the game as enjoyable aspects such as attacking become harder and less profitable.


Changes have done nothing but make the game more challenging and make teams work together as it should be, not by enabling the funding. But by actually working together. Why is there no attacking in the upper ranks... everyones friends and just dont want a battle so they don't stir the pot. Its not because they can't its because they choose not to. The players that are gone, many of em have other obligations, I talk to AK5 from time to time, he is just too busy to commit anytime right now so you have a whole bunch of old timers that just dont have the time to devote as they have families and real jobs. So that leaves it up to us to entice new players and work towards a system as KZ has suggested where we can vet players in by a training area so they can play and grow and then move into the main game. Don't forget playing in the main is like playin in the NFL, all the best players are there and know how to play.

Quote:
I value each of these experienced players at least as much as ten to twenty new, inconsequential players. Maybe it's mean of me to say that, and disparaging to the new guys, but it's true. These guys mix it up in the top rankings, they give each other a run for the money, and they are great to play against. They're the shining stars of AAT. Experienced, skilled, established players are the people who make the game fun, and there are fewer and fewer of them every round.


Well if the old timers would team with the new guys and train them we would have a whole new crew of good players. All it takes is a little community. I actually plan this round to team with some new players so I can help them along.

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I'm not screaming "Repeal the changes," though you all do know that there are a few things that I don't agree with. I'm not saying everything you've done is wrong, but I am saying that, whether it was a good idea or not, it doesn't seem to be working.


Sorry, there wont be any changes to whats been put in. What you will see is more expansion of the game in the future in all kinds of ways. Anything we put in is there for a reason so we watch things closely. What the edgy players don't like is the fact that we frown on them trying to work around the system we have put in place. Its a game, but everyone needs to take the moral high ground instead of trying to buck the system.

Quote:
And something else to consider: A ship you all put into the game, the excelsior, has become all but obsolete. It is only useful at the very end of a game for the highest players in the rankings. Otherwise, techs past the capacity of a voyager are simply unattainable. And now, with shorter rounds (albeit accelerated) rounds, the Excelsior's future looks even more bleak. Maybe the ship will get some use in the last week of the round, but I wouldn't expect much more than that.



I will say you are wrong here. There was some decent excels in the game. And there will be bigger ones this round. Have patience there will be great stuff.

Well 67 players starting to play in 4 days tells me everyone likes whats there and they like to play or you wouldnt see that. Now its up to you and the rest of the users to help it grow. While I am just as guilty with teaming with my friends I seem to recall you hiding in a hole and then teaming with all experienced players as well. Now if you really want to see it grow build a team with you and a load of noobs and see what you can do. Thats what I will be doing, but I am still probably a good 4-8 days out to start.



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 Post subject: Re: Status of Main
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:40 pm 
AA Warrior
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Alright. All your explanations are valid. I'm not going to argue or anything, because that's not what this topic is about. If I wanted to pick a fight over a certain change or something, I'd do that somewhere else. This was just me expressing my pessimism. :P

Just one thing:

Quote:
Why is there no attacking in the upper ranks... everyones friends and just dont want a battle so they don't stir the pot. Its not because they can't its because they choose not to.


Well, I don't like this. I think stirring the post is a good thing. Of course you know this. In my attempt to stir the pot, I usually single you out :) I think if attacking were more profitable, or something like that, there'd be more motivation for attacking, and we'd see move of it. But that's ok, like I said, I didn't start this thread to debate. It's just a reality check thread.

There are a lot of really good ideas out there that I like a lot, and I look forward to them, if they ever get put into use (R&B for example :P)



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 Post subject: Re: Status of Main
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:03 pm 
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Valience wrote:
Alright. All your explanations are valid. I'm not going to argue or anything, because that's not what this topic is about. If I wanted to pick a fight over a certain change or something, I'd do that somewhere else. This was just me expressing my pessimism. :P

Just one thing:

Quote:
Why is there no attacking in the upper ranks... everyones friends and just dont want a battle so they don't stir the pot. Its not because they can't its because they choose not to.


Well, I don't like this. I think stirring the post is a good thing. Of course you know this. In my attempt to stir the pot, I usually single you out :) I think if attacking were more profitable, or something like that, there'd be more motivation for attacking, and we'd see move of it. But that's ok, like I said, I didn't start this thread to debate. It's just a reality check thread.

There are a lot of really good ideas out there that I like a lot, and I look forward to them, if they ever get put into use (R&B for example :P)


Well if we can stay away from adding anything to the main that stops an exploit we might get to work on it. The plan is to actually open a highly accelerated beta :)



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 Post subject: Re: Status of Main
PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:43 am 
AA Warrior
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Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:20 pm
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Yes, and I looke forward to it. That'd be fun.



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 Post subject: Re: Status of Main
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:22 pm 
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I have been gone, haven't I? :(



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