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 Post subject: Re: Build kill say goodbye
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:50 pm 
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You don't really need to run around all that much. every few days tag 5 to 10 planets and once a week grab the few indies that will poo up during the week. you really only need to spend a total of 45 minutes at most per week managing planets. split that amongst 2 or 3 days a week.


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 Post subject: Re: Build kill say goodbye
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:41 am 
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InstinctSage wrote:
Auto routes? :?

I don't know about all this... I enjoy watching my little empire grow, but I don't want to be burdened by running around managing it... A lot of games include an option to get a colony manager to do this sort of stuff once you're past the growth stage and moving on to conquest. Any plans for something similar? I don't feel too inclined to get too big if it means I'm going to be chasing my tail to prevent indies all the time.


An autoroute will let you move through a deep sg with one click. You make them with the nav computer.

No there are no plans to make tagging planets easier. We have made it harder to discourage people building large numbers of planets. You can move up with less planets. Although having that many planets can really make you alot of credits there will always be risks involved... expect us to make that even harder based on the number of planets someone has.



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 Post subject: Re: Build kill say goodbye
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:19 pm 
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How come you don't want people building so much?


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 Post subject: Re: Build kill say goodbye
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:49 pm 
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I understand the tagging is to prevent players getting massive amounts of planets. It just doesn't feel like the right solution, to me. It's clearly not preventing huge numbers of planets controlled by a player, just forcing them to juggle. I'd prefer to see the game encourage/reward fully developed planets over mass amounts of semi-developed planets, but the way the game is run at the moment I can't see that happening.

There's a lot of emphasis on planets in the game. They have the greatest earning potential for both builders and attackers. There are valid tactics for having fewer fully developed planets over more semi developed ones, but thanks to the exponential costing, nova bombs, and the relatively low price of SGTs and GTs, it seems far easier to create multiple deep SGs with all sorts of defenses and oodles of planets.

You can invest X amount into a planet and get back everything you've invested in no time, so long as you have the money to get it to 90% max credits. It becomes harder and harder to do that the larger the planet gets, so you need to switch to multiple planets to keep the investment profitable. Once you get to the size where the level of defenses is going to push your opponents to nova, going further is just putting too many eggs in one basket, isn't it? Where's the incentive to keep developing as opposed to dropping a few t on a new planet and starting again?

It's not that I don't want people building so much. But there's a planetary tech maximum of 600. If you wanted to max a planet It'd cost into the hexillions. The max credits would be astronomical. And I don't think anybody would ever bother, because somebody could nova the whole thing, and if you could afford to build a planet that size, let alone have enough money on it to use it for credit producting, it would have to be a pretty big chunk of your net worth. I feel like there's something wrong with the system in that it effectively encourages spreading yourself so thinly and managing it using the techniques you've described.

There should be a balance between the two (spreading out and being dense) and I think it's a little skewed towards spreading out at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: Build kill say goodbye
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:04 pm 
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MadMArdigan666 wrote:
How come you don't want people building so much?


Its hard on the server. And builders should have to work for their credits... I'd like indys to create more havoc with builders :)



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 Post subject: Re: Build kill say goodbye
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:16 pm 
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InstinctSage wrote:
There should be a balance between the two (spreading out and being dense) and I think it's a little skewed towards spreading out at the moment.


You build over a 100 planets and see how much fun they are to manage. Note, some of the players up top dont have 500-1000 planets. In fact I got 119, but I think I could optimize them a little more and drop the totals down to around 75 and still maintain my position. I've not lost a single planet to indy with my 119. I just a path I take every few days and many of the planets are in 5 planet sectors so I can move through the list pretty quickly.

The other side of the coin is, I have taken a real passive stance due to my workload so have not played as aggressively as I normally do. A good aggressive player could put a big dent in the builders finances.



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 Post subject: Re: Build kill say goodbye
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:17 pm 
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Tarnus wrote:
InstinctSage wrote:
Speaking of WTF moments...

"The Federation has issued warnings concerning the Empire of The First Horseman. The First Horseman has control of 950 planets and should be considered very dangerous. All sectors should increase sector defenses immediately."

950?

Let's say I want to be competitive at this game... Am I gonna have to be going around touching base with hundreds of planets every 3 days and doing all sorts of micromanagement on this kind of scale?
I like having a little nest to go to, and dotting them about the galaxy seems like fun. But there seems to be a fair amount of chores to take care of to maintain the empire.
It could get bloated pretty quickly. How do you guys manage all this stuff?



Thats called being a CRAZY SOB. Super builders are a little off. Do you really think they are tagging 950 planets every 3 days. Nope... they know they will be grabbing indys so they tag the important stuff and then tag as they can. And grab all their indys over time... if you want to manage that many planets more power to ya. Thats not for me. And you can be competitive with less planets. You just have to spend time being a pain in their rear to keep their numbers down. :)


LOL, i"m not that far off, planet number wise, and I DO touch them every other day. I had two indies this whole game. ;)
Guess I'll be off, then! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Build kill say goodbye
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:20 pm 
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Tarnus wrote:
MadMArdigan666 wrote:
How come you don't want people building so much?


Its hard on the server. And builders should have to work for their credits... I'd like indys to create more havoc with builders :)


You're the second one to say I don't work for my credits. Do you know how ANNOYING it is, having to touch 500 planets one night, and 300 the next? HUH HUH HUH?

LOL


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 Post subject: Re: Build kill say goodbye
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:25 pm 
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Tarnus wrote:
InstinctSage wrote:
Speaking of WTF moments...

"The Federation has issued warnings concerning the Empire of The First Horseman. The First Horseman has control of 950 planets and should be considered very dangerous. All sectors should increase sector defenses immediately."

950?

Let's say I want to be competitive at this game... Am I gonna have to be going around touching base with hundreds of planets every 3 days and doing all sorts of micromanagement on this kind of scale?
I like having a little nest to go to, and dotting them about the galaxy seems like fun. But there seems to be a fair amount of chores to take care of to maintain the empire.
It could get bloated pretty quickly. How do you guys manage all this stuff?



Thats called being a CRAZY SOB. Super builders are a little off. Do you really think they are tagging 950 planets every 3 days. Nope... they know they will be grabbing indys so they tag the important stuff and then tag as they can. And grab all their indys over time... if you want to manage that many planets more power to ya. Thats not for me. And you can be competitive with less planets. You just have to spend time being a pain in their rear to keep their numbers down. :)


Yes, I have many planets, but no, I cannot say I am a "Super Builder' as the vast majority of those planets are conquests from other players. Crazy SOB? Most definately. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Build kill say goodbye
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:37 pm 
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Tarnus wrote:

You build over a 100 planets and see how much fun they are to manage. Note, some of the players up top dont have 500-1000 planets. In fact I got 119, but I think I could optimize them a little more and drop the totals down to around 75 and still maintain my position. I've not lost a single planet to indy with my 119. I just a path I take every few days and many of the planets are in 5 planet sectors so I can move through the list pretty quickly.

The other side of the coin is, I have taken a real passive stance due to my workload so have not played as aggressively as I normally do. A good aggressive player could put a big dent in the builders finances.


That's what I'm saying. I don't want to have to touch so many planets a day, every few days, just to maintain a high position. I also wouldn't like to see the game become "person with most planets = winner" due to flat economies of scale. I like the idea of discouraging players from building hundreds of semi-developed planets, I'm just not convinced that 3 day indies is the best solution. The scoreboard seems to suggest that crazy building is still a viable tactic.


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 Post subject: Re: Build kill say goodbye
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:27 am 
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InstinctSage wrote:
That's what I'm saying. I don't want to have to touch so many planets a day, every few days, just to maintain a high position. I also wouldn't like to see the game become "person with most planets = winner" due to flat economies of scale. I like the idea of discouraging players from building hundreds of semi-developed planets, I'm just not convinced that 3 day indies is the best solution. The scoreboard seems to suggest that crazy building is still a viable tactic.


That is the choice we made for the game. Tagging planets is hard. You only have to tag planets once you are over 50. Note: Anything we do we try to have a reason for it. We feel if your going to have a huge empire the people need to see you. And while 3 days may seem hard, its only hard once you get in the higher numbers, especially if your like me and want to prove you can do it and not lose a single one to an indy. I've played games where I have been in the top and only had 50 planets. Its all about the choices you make.

Ask the top guys, being number one isnt any fun. Let those crazy planet builders build... just more stuff for me to take once I go into attack mode.



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 Post subject: Re: Build kill say goodbye
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:08 pm 
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I've kinda come to the conclusion I might as well go and question everything to find out the reasons you guys put it in. :-P
I forgot about the 50 limit before it comes into effect. I was worried I'd be knocked about by it since sometimes I haven't logged in for a few days.


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 Post subject: Re: Build kill say goodbye
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:58 pm 
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InstinctSage wrote:
I've kinda come to the conclusion I might as well go and question everything to find out the reasons you guys put it in. :-P
I forgot about the 50 limit before it comes into effect. I was worried I'd be knocked about by it since sometimes I haven't logged in for a few days.


LOL, nothing wrong with that. Many things we do is to prevent an exploit and or to try to maintain a good balance... its a work in progress. For any cool thing we add, we have to think on weather it can be used for evil... even the good stuff can bite ya in the butt sometimes :)



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 Post subject: Re: Build kill say goodbye
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:16 pm 
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I noticed that in the way new changes are discussed (i.e. potential exploits, affect on existing rules, etc.)

It's all rather interesting seeing how fluid the game is. In truth I actually picked AAT out of a big list of browser based games specifically because it was listed as version .31 and I liked the idea of being able to contribute to building a game. I was a little surprised to learn just how long its been in development, but then it is a lot more complex than a lot of Browser Based games. I'm pretty impressed with the universe generation.

With the amount of game settings that can be tweaked on the fly, as well as additional modules, you could almost go for a political sim as a subset of the game itself. Players lobby the admins for rule changes in an essentially democratic universe. Naturally you'll have players wanting rule changes and tweaks that benefit their own play style and current position (i.e. large builders wanting better credit production multiplier, attackers wanting a nerfed planet protection bonus or the like). It would get horrifically unbalanced before long, but it'd be good for a laugh.


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 Post subject: Re: Build kill say goodbye
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:09 am 
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I don't believe I've ever had over 50 planets. I did have 41 planets before those Damned horsemen came and roughed up my base sector and podded me. It's okay though, I got them back... by kicking Val off my team. That'll teach'em!

EDIT : Worth noting that when they came and roughed me up they were Miss Priss, Faulty Wiring, and The Fourth Horsemen. They weren't in matching uniforms yet.



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