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 Post subject: Main Game Bounty Change
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:34 am 
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We will be making a change to the bounty system in the main game this weekend. So this is a warning to those players getting bounties on purpose.

We have noticed that the bounty system just isn't being effective in stopping large players from preying on newbies. It is causing some new players to be driven away from the game and we can't have this. The bounty system was intended to prevent larger players from doing this but it is failing. The current Alliance/Federation attacks on players with unpaid bounties is going to stay unchanged. If a player has 3 or more unpaid Federation or Alliance bounties then the Federation or Alliance would attack the player once a day until the bounties were paid down. This, unfortunately, isn't stopping the top players.

There is a bounty countdown counter for every player. Every time a player gets a bounty this counter is incremented by one. If you get three bounties in a row this counter will be set to 3. The counter will slowly start counting down and it takes almost 4 days to remove ONE bounty from the counter. This counter has been used as a multiplier for the bounties placed on the player. We added this a long time ago to make the money that had to be paid really hurt the more bounties a player racked up. It should have made it cost prohibitive to attack players who would give you a bounty. Unfortunately some teams have have found a loophole and are funneling money to an attack player. This way the player could pay their bounties down and still attack low ranked players. We have decided to PLUG this hole.

We will be adding two more levels of Federation/Alliance attacks on players who get bounties.

The first level is the current one where the Alliance/Federation will attack a player once a day until the bounties are paid down below 3 bounties.

The second, new level will not check on unpaid bounties. This level will check the Alliance and Federation bounty countdown. Any players with 5 or more bounties on their countdown timer will be attacked once a day until the countdown timer goes below 5. There is NOTHING the player can do to stop the federation from attacking. Paying off their bounties will not stop the attacks. Only time will eventually stop the attacks.

The third, new level is by far the worst. This level will also check the Alliance and Federation bounty countdown. Any players with 7 or more bounties on their countdown timer will have the Alliance/Federation CONFISCATE the most valuable ship the player owns. If the player is on the ship when confiscated the player will be placed in a PIONEER. The countdown timer will then be reduced by 1. If the player hit 7 on their counter the most expensive ship would be confiscated and the counter dropped to 6. If the player was silly enough to get 8 bounties then one one ship will be confiscated and counter dropped to 7. The next day ANOTHER ship will be confiscated and the counter dropped to 6. The Federation/Alliance will confiscate one ship per day until the bounty countdown timer goes below 7.

The players will have absolutely NO control over how fast the countdown timer drops but they do have control over it going up. They just have to stop attacking players that will give them a bounty.

We didn't want to do this but circumstances in the main game have made it clear there must be a change. Look for these changes to come into effect sometime this weekend.

We have lowered any players who have a bounty counter over 4 down to 4. So you have a grace period. If any player goes OVER 4 between now and when we implement this change then too bad. You will have to pay the piper or the Federation/Alliance in this case.



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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:10 am 
AA Warrior
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You know something else that would be great? Have a popup like the one for messages whenever a player performs an action that would lead to a bounty. There are many times that a player just gets a bounty by accident. Yes, there are plenty of ways to check, but we all make mistakes. This would help a lot!!!



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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:16 pm 
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We are not going to hold the players hands in this. There are ways a player can check but if they get in a hurry and avoid checking then they deserve what they get. These changes are to try and prevent people who are actively seeking out players who would give them a bounty from killing them.



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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:28 pm 
AA Warrior
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Dude... the game is FOR the players. The game exists for the ENTERTAINMENT of the player. Why the hell not make it easy? It shouldn't be such a pain to tell if you're going to get a bounty or not.

Ahh well... you're always so damn stubborn about this stuff. There is NO reason not to take some time and make it a little easier for everyone.



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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:55 pm 
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Val it is easy. Scan the sector, scan the players. What your wanting is the equivalent to a safety on your gun, if you pull the trigger you intended to fire. Having the safety on just dumbs down the action. Your a smarter player than that.


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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:29 pm 
AA Warrior
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Yeah, and it's not even a big problem for me, but it would just easier. I don't even have a reason to be as upset as I am, but I just think there's nothing wrong with the idea. And I think there are some new players that would benefit fromt this change.

When it comes down to it, the customer/player is only right when they are actually a customer (paying) :P so do what you want. But I think this would be nice.


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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:26 pm 
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Val, by your logic we should just always give 100% accurate scan information because it would be easier for the players. Or always give players an escape pod when they buy a new ship. Or tell a player before they attack a planet or ship if they REALLY will die doing it.

The players have to take some responsibility for how they play. That is why there are scanners. People can SCAN to see if they get a bounty before they attack. if a player is too lazy to actually scan first then too bad.

Even if the players were paying we would do what was right for the game and not just what the players want. I have seen too many good games go into the toilet when it comes to game balance because the designers listened to the players too much.



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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:18 pm 
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Too many popups anyway. You should even remove one of the destroy planet ones.. only extra one should be in the suicide option explaining why its a bad idea.
:!: In fact you should make the suicide action wait for 24 hours so they can change their minds after thinking on it. :banging:



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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:29 am 
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Players are asked TWICE if they really want to suicide. I think that's enough.



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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:40 pm 
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I have to say I congratulate you on adding this, it has been needed since shortly after the start of this round. I don't know about other rounds as I was not really around long enough to know :) . I had over 60 planets but unfortunately apparently got on the wrong side of some one (or they just finally got to the point where they could build funds quick enough to pay the bounties off) but I ended up dropping around 40 planets in two days. 30 to 35 of those planets would have been bounty to the best of my knowledge for the guy doing the attacking but unfortunately they got to attack anyways because of simply paying the bounties off quickly. I am glad to see that this is now now place, as I had pretty much given up playing all together because of the bounty riding some players were doing. This will greatly help reduce this if not completely remove this all together. And I do agree, that you should always scan first prior to attacking, I learned the hard way that even though the first attack may not be bounty that does not mean that the second account wont be :eek: . Players get too lazy if everything is in a pop-up, lol. Thanks PJ for coming up with this, greatly appreciated and this will allow me to return to actually playing the game again as prior to this there was not much chance of me really getting back into it.


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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:02 pm 
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I'm sorry, PJ, but what you said is wrong. I said that the game should be for the entertainment of the player. Information that is supposed to be accessible by the player cannot be too accessible.

Scans being accurate is itself an entertainment issue. If scans were always accurate, it would be unfair and less entertaining. Giving them an escape pod would make sense though. I support that. Telling them when they are going to lose would be stupid as well, because it would make the game unfair. You are completely distoring what I said and corrupting it with your incorrect logic.

Anyway, there is a difference between accurate scans and bounties. A person should not get a bounty that they did not expect. It just shouldn't happen. If it does, it means two things.

Number one: the person they attacked, the victim, just lost a ship/planet because the attacker didn't know they'd get a bounty and wouldn't have attacked otherwise. I mean, if you're not going to do it for the attacker, do it for the victim.

Number two: the attacker now has a bounty he or she didn't mean to get.

When I said that the game should be as easy as possible, I meant easy to play, not easy to win. Here is an example.

Say I want to go to a sector. Should I have to...

A: click the warplink to the sector, or

B: record the sector name somewhere (on a sheet of paper or remember it), then go through four different drop down and pop up menus, then type out the sector backward? And maybe somewhere along the way they should have to enter a "movement password" that they have to memorize, to make sure someone isn't hacking into their profile and trying to move their ship without their consent.

To counter, by you're logic, the player should have to do B. Otherwise, they're just too lazy a player.

The most acceptable excuse you could possibly go with for not doing this is that it would be too much work on your end, and that you're not getting paid for it. If you said that, I would be fine, but what you're saying instead is just silly.



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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:21 am 
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Val you're being ridiculous in your method of argument here, not the mention going over the line by even presuming that their excuse for not adding a pop-up box to warn you of what you should already know is due to the fact that it would be too much work. As if the two of them haven't already bled away enough hours of their life, not to mention cash building and maintaining a game that they offer to the public free of charge. To even mention that they might not be bending to your whim because of laziness on their end is downright offensive.

On top of that when you look in the rankings there are little red stars to tell you who is a bounty. When you scan a person's planet it says in BIG BOLD RED LETTERS that attacking it will give you a bounty. When you scan a person's ship it says in BIG BOLD RED LETTERS that attacking it will give you a bounty. If you don't scan at all and just attempt to put a spy on the planet it tells you in BIG BOLD RED LETTERS that even that will give you a bounty. In long range scan mode planets have BOUNTY written over them. Even seeing their defences or their ship in long range scan will tell you if it's a bounty or not.

However, despite how this message has started, I partially agree with you. I believe that the small warning "(Bounty)" That shows up next to the ammount of fighters in a sector when you scan it long range could also show up Next to the "attack" link of the planet menu. No pop-up screen, just a few extra characters on the planet menu. I also think that could show up next to the "attack" link on the ship menu. Lastly, I think it'd be nice to have that next to the "Fight" or "Attack and run" option of the SD Fighters screen, since sometimes you can be clicking random links and run into them without knowing who they belong too. That being said, I don't believe these things HAVE to be added... I find it hard enough to get a bounty as is. I certainly haven't gotten one yet in this round. Those are just the certain instances where I could let myself agree with you.



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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:07 pm 
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Well first of all, I said that it being too much work was a valid excuse. I did not say that they are lazy. In fact, it would be a valid excuse because they are so hard working. The admins do plenty for the game, and if they can't find time to add in something like this for a game they don't get paid to run, it's understandable in my bood.

I think you're being an asshole, trying to twist something that I said out of sympathy for the amount of work the admins do into me calling them lazy.

Anyway, my idea is not completely necessary. I'm angry not because my idea was rejected, but beause of the manner it was rejected in, as if it was inherently a bad idea, which it wasn't.



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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:21 pm 
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It would be EASY to add but it is not going to happen. It is HAND HOLDING to put something like that by any attack button. That is what the scan is for and doing what you want Val would nake the scan totally and completely USELESS for checking on a bounty. We are not going to hold players hands like that.



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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:32 pm 
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After some thought and discussion we have decided to lower the second level from 6 bounties to 5 bounties and the third level from 10 bounties to 7. We have changed the information in the original post to reflect the changes.

We decided the numbers were too high and some people would skate just below them.

So, 3 unpaid bounties and the Federation/Alliance hit you once a day until paid down.

If you have accumulated 5 or more on your bounty counter then the Federation/Alliance will attack once a day, every day until the counter drops below 5. This can take up to 4 days.

If you have accumulated 7 or more on your bounty counter then the Federation/Alliance will confiscate the most expensive ship owned and drop the counter down by one every day until the counter is below 7.



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