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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change Part Tres
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:55 pm 
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LordTonto wrote:
I also think Sector Novas were fun and tactical. they always had a chance of backfiring and they could take down a ton of SDs quickly. It's the Countermeasure to 200 million fighters... to which there currently is no way to beat that many without willingly forfeiting several ships.


That is why we added a fighter limit based upon Sector Defense Weapons Tech when we removed the Sector Nova. People can only have a fraction of the fighters in a sector compared to what they were able to place when the Sector Nova was allowed.

We always balance things out. :)

The Sector Nova was basically added to counteract the massive numbers of fighters people were placing in their sectors. When we restricted the number of fighters based upon planetary SD tech there wasn't a need for the Sector Nova anymore.

The restriction on how effective a huge ship is based upon the planetary support infrastructure is similar to the restrictions on SD based upon planetary SD Weapons Tech.



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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change Part Tres
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:56 pm 
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From what I've heard of them, they sounded really unfair. I agree that the game should support the little guy, but that's just too much. A guy can spend a few quadrillion on good SDs and have them blown away by a 15T max bomb? How is that balanced? Yeah, they can back fire. Do you know how much a nova back fire costs me these days? 10B to repair my endy.

And Tonto, I could certainly be mistaken, but I have never seen you in the top ten as an attacker, so how would you know what it takes to break 200M SD? At my peak in my first round, I could do that with two ships (my main, and my smaller AR ship). It really wouldn't be that hard.



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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change Part Tres
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:07 pm 
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It's not that it is hard to break SD, it just takes too much time. With a nova bomb you can slice it in half.
It is one of those chore things to break sd. Kind of like the skill building time waste in the mmo's.
sector missles don't make up for the sector nova bomb. Sorry. You can't hit high level players as easily as you could with a nova bomb.
I loved sniping people that kept walking the same line. Xiadix and sit in a sector. Him in an endevor and me in my big ship, so I could see them when they came into the sector. So he could shoot.


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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change Part Tres
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:43 pm 
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I don't have any experience with these, so I can understand discrediting my contribution to the debate, but it seems like sector novas would really make it too easy for the attacker. They'd be able to take out SD with much smaller ships, which means spending less money than the builder. It just doesn't seem fair that a builder could spend so much to ensure that their stuff is safe and then just have it all blown away.



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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change Part Tres
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:00 pm 
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Ash wrote:
It's not that it is hard to break SD, it just takes too much time. With a nova bomb you can slice it in half.
It is one of those chore things to break sd. Kind of like the skill building time waste in the mmo's.
sector missles don't make up for the sector nova bomb. Sorry. You can't hit high level players as easily as you could with a nova bomb.
I loved sniping people that kept walking the same line. Xiadix and sit in a sector. Him in an endevor and me in my big ship, so I could see them when they came into the sector. So he could shoot.


But you certainly can do more damage. I remember taking out a HUGE player in game a few resets back with one SM, it change the game for him and cost hin 35 mill points. So they can create a HUGE equalizer.


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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change Part Tres
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:29 pm 
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Not saying they can't be hit, just that it is very hard to hit them. You have less of a chance then you did with nova bombs.

I think it should be easier to break someone. It isn't good to allow someone to be big enough to be safe.

I hate to relive the past, but in the game I won, I had enough money to put out level 40 planets right off the bat.
I even sat a few out in space where I didn't own it so it was harder to see them. Just dump out a level 40 cloak planet and people walk on by.
No one was safe in that game.

You all talk now like the top players are untouchable, and I see that as a problem.

Tarnus, I think it is sort of an answer. If I can hammer anyone, then they can come down and try to punish me all they want, but I can hurt them back.


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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change Part Tres
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 4:19 pm 
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Ash wrote:
Not saying they can't be hit, just that it is very hard to hit them. You have less of a chance then you did with nova bombs.


You all talk now like the top players are untouchable, and I see that as a problem.

Tarnus, I think it is sort of an answer. If I can hammer anyone, then they can come down and try to punish me all they want, but I can hurt them back.


No, I have never said they were untouchable. They just have everyone over a barrel thinking they are. I just don't have the time right now to prove that I can take em down. :) I did say that they had a ton of credits. Being behind on real life work SUCKS!


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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change Part Tres
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 5:32 pm 
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Ash wrote:
It's not that it is hard to break SD, it just takes too much time.


You are right and that is why I am also wanting to throw out the old combat code and rewrite it to be more realistic where you no longer need millions of fighters or mines for any kind of combat. I posted about it in the 1.00 discussion area. Basically tech levels are used for how much offensive and defensive power each fighter/mine has instead of how many you can carry. This way we can have combat resolution code similar to a normal RTS. Instead of having repetitive attacks trying to whittle down the numbers of fighters/mines you can have one attack that usually resolves the entire situation.



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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change Part Tres
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 6:23 pm 
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Ash wrote:
It isn't good to allow someone to be big enough to be safe.


Well, they can never get so big that they're safe from players their size. If they can build up to twice the score of the player in second, it means they are a higher class player. I say "props for that," and it wouldn't make sense if I could touch them. But as long as there are players out there that are good enough players to take them down (translates to capable of attaining their range of score), then they can be taken down.

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You are right and that is why I am also wanting to throw out the old combat code and rewrite it to be more realistic where you no longer need millions of fighters or mines for any kind of combat. I posted about it in the 1.00 discussion area. Basically tech levels are used for how much offensive and defensive power each fighter/mine has instead of how many you can carry. This way we can have combat resolution code similar to a normal RTS. Instead of having repetitive attacks trying to whittle down the numbers of fighters/mines you can have one attack that usually resolves the entire situation.


I do like this idea, except, as I believe I've pointed out in the past, the scans would now have to at least give the scanner an idea of what tech the fighters were at, so that they can get an idea of how safe an attack is (seeing fighter numbers do this currently). I'm not saying we should be told the level, maybe just the "class" of fighter, like the level rounded to the nearest 20 and then divided by twenty. Level 200 fighters are class 10, level 300 class 15, level 350 fighters class 17 or 18, etc.



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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change Part Tres
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:34 pm 
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Valience wrote:
Ash wrote:
It isn't good to allow someone to be big enough to be safe.


>>>>>Well, they can never get so big that they're safe from players their size. If they can build up to twice the score of the player in second, it means they are a higher class player. I say "props for that," and it wouldn't make sense if I could touch them. But as long as there are players out there that are good enough players to take them down (translates to capable of attaining their range of score), then they can be taken down.<<<<<

Any lair and any player can be taken down...it's a matter of time, resources, determination and guile. No one is untouchable...no one...some are just more difficult than others are for a variety of reasons. To me, no one is "safe"...including the top-score players (myself included). I prefer to think of it as "buffered".

The First Horseman


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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change Part Tres
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 7:34 am 
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Tarnus wrote:

But you certainly can do more damage. I remember taking out a HUGE player in game a few resets back with one SM, it change the game for him and cost hin 35 mill points. So they can create a HUGE equalizer.


I don't think it was me... jog my memory.

The bounty system seems to be a huge debate at this point in time, probably being sparked by sporadic attacks by top teams sticking it to the small ones. An option that could possibly be reviewed are "Newbie Nova bombs". If player A's team score is low enough to attack, yet leading player's score exceeds player B's score by 200% then there should be a chance that if Player A attacks Player B's planet, a message should occur.

"When you attacked the planet, a nova bomb was immediately triggered incinerating the planet and causing massive damage to neighbouring planets and your ship. A terrorist faction/pirate group/Kabal Raiders/Federation Trading Core acknowledge that the bomb was held on "Player B's Planet" for safekeeping in between transport stops."

This wouldn't happen all the time but Player A will think twice about wiping out Player B.



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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change Part Tres
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:00 am 
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Actually that's not the real problem.

The problem is where you have a player with a low score, few planets or no planets and a large ship like an Excelsior attacking people in their score range. They aren't getting bounties but they have a ship no one in their score range could even own or defend against. So this player is wiping everyone out in their score range with a ship that could only normally be owned by a player who would get a bounty if they attacked them.



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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change Part Tres
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:50 am 
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So then doesn't my above suggestion sort of intimidate said players into considering the chance that they may be susceptible to being an endless void in which the top player on the team may choose to donate money to or abandon the thought? The nova bomb may be detrimental to the overall motive of these mini players.



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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change Part Tres
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:51 pm 
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I still don't see any reason why my suggestion, which cuts right to the problem without affecting any other aspect of the game at all, isn't being considered more seriously.



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 Post subject: Re: Main Game Bounty Change Part Tres
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 3:50 pm 
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darkon wrote:
It is too bad that a few players have pretty much ruined this game for any one else other then the *chosen few* that they don't feel like bullying around or are personal friends (though we also know that some times that does not make a difference either). Good luck getting them under control but it way too late this round as they have already benefited way too much from the ways the cheated and abused the system to take advantage of other players that are newer to this game, spend less time playing and simply don't have the resources of several veteran players to help them abuse the system and other players. I will watch around for when the next round starts and see if maybe the newer systems then can help to keep some of these people who obvious have nothing worth anything more then a simple online game in their life where they must stoop to the type of tactics that they have up to this point to take advantage of the current rules and anti-abuse systems of the game and abuse other players.

Piece out till then everyone!


Less whining please...I didn't see anyone cheating this round, just playing without morality. And yes, you got your ass kicked, big freaking deal.

LordTonto wrote:
I also think Sector Novas were fun and tactical. they always had a chance of backfiring and they could take down a ton of SDs quickly. It's the Countermeasure to 200 million fighters... to which there currently is no way to beat that many without willingly forfeiting several ships.

I think everything should be able to be defended, but to the point where it takes the same amount of creds/effort to undefend it.There's always the option of increasing sector nova risk of backfiring, or the option of making it only work on SDs and Ships and not hurt all planetary techs...

anyway, I liked Sector Novas... that's just me.


200m isn't a big deal, the only problem with it is not knowing tech levels (We need our damn probes for cryin out loud!) And for the record, I am against Sector Novas. I played extensively during their reign, and its not fun, and its not fair.



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