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 Post subject: Final Bounty Changes Added...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:05 pm 
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This was mentioned some time ago and we finally got around to adding it to the game.

Everyone should know by now if you get enough bounties the Federation will start confiscating your ships starting with the most expensive. It doesn't matter if the ship is stored on a planet or if you are piloting it.

One of the things a player could do to avoid loosing large sums of money from confiscated ships is to sell all of their ships at half price and only have a pioneer. This way they would lose very little money or score.

We have upped the ante and included planets to what can be confiscated. The Federation and Alliance will confiscated the most VALUABLE item a player owns. If it is a planet the planet is confiscated. If it is a ship the ship is confiscated. The player will lose the most expensive thing they own. They can't sell things off to avoid it because the value of a ship or planet is calculated based upon all tech levels, commodities and items including credits on the ship or planet at the time.

Here is an example of the Log Entry a player will get if a planet is confiscated.

Quote:
Planetary Skirmish! September 16 2008 16:46

Your planet was confiscated by FEDERATION. Do to excessive attacks on bounty players the FEDERATION has confiscated one of your planets (????????) in sector ??????? worth 3,357,411,453,528 credits.


There is a double whammy if a planet is confiscated. Any ships stored on the planet are confiscated as well. Any players landed on the planet are tossed into space and there is no way anyone can ever acquire the planet again. It's just GONE.

We have also changed when the confiscation happens. It was happening at midnight after the first one. It will now happen at different times between 21 and 27 hours after the last federation/alliance attack. This way the player can't easily predict when their ship/planet will be confiscated.

We decided to move this up after the Devil May Cry problem and seeing how only pioneers were being confiscated while he was still gaining in score.

This is something that will only happen if someone PURPOSEFULLY starts attacking bounty level small players. It will never affect 99.999% of the players in the game as there is no way to accidentally get enough bounties to cause this to happen. It takes a conscious effort by a player to cause the Federation or Alliance to start confiscating planets and ships.



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 Post subject: Re: Final Bounty Changes Added...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:43 pm 
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Quote:
there is no way anyone can ever acquire the planet again. It's just GONE.


You should make them Federation Planets but impossible to take. That way, if there are other planets in the sector, it becomes a permanent warzone.

Does having a ship on a planet increase the value of the planet? If the player were landed on the planet, does that increase the value of the planet?


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 Post subject: Re: Final Bounty Changes Added...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:10 pm 
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No that would be a bad thing. I thought about making them into independent planets but I figured the owner would end up taking them back and I didn't want that. So removing the planet was the best alternative. And landing doesn't increase a planets value.



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 Post subject: Re: Final Bounty Changes Added...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:02 pm 
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I don't mean to sound like a broken record... but here is the tail chasing again.

If aggressor is so large and the target so small that a bounty will occur, WHY even let the attack take place in the first place?

I personally can think of two other methods of "beating the system" that haven't even been "discovered" yet... why allow the behavior to ruin the game play for everyone else? Why spend time chasing around the newest "exploit"? Just change the basic premise of AAT so that you NEVER have tail chase again. Ever.

I have said it for years and will say it again. Networth immunity.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3313


DO NOT let over aggressive exploiting chumps chase players away from this game.


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 Post subject: Re: Final Bounty Changes Added...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:42 pm 
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Because there are times when a player might just think it was worth it to attack the bounty player. Like when a larger player uses a bounty player as a shield in their SG gateway sector. That is one of many reasons.

You can always attack anyone in the game but there will be consequences for doing it on bounty level players. It's up to the attacker to decide if it is worth the bounty to do it.

These changes are for someone who doesn't care and goes on a rampage. They basically get their ability to do it removed.



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 Post subject: Re: Final Bounty Changes Added...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:52 pm 
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Panama Jack wrote:
Like when a larger player uses a bounty player as a shield in their SG gateway sector...

There have been proposals around this.. from the Fed Space Training area to the multiverse ideas... and in this case if someone is so big they can just cloak through.

Panama Jack wrote:
These changes are for someone who doesn't care and goes on a rampage. They basically get their ability to do it removed.


No. No it doesn't stop a rampage. It punishes the player after the fact. AFTER someones first trip into the AAT Universe is tainted forever by a "WTH" moment. Those players that get thumped by someone 50x their size may NEVER come back to AAT. Furthermore, it certainly doesn't stop the exploits that get found in the future.

It is a constant tail chasing extravaganza and generally NOT at the cost of the ultra aggressive chump being punished but rather at the cost of the newer players. Newer players that will be disenchanted. Newer players that AAT needs to retain if it ever hopes to grow.


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 Post subject: Re: Final Bounty Changes Added...
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:06 am 
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If there are exploits then tell us about them otherwise you are just blowing smoke out your butt.



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 Post subject: Re: Final Bounty Changes Added...
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:07 am 
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Panama Jack wrote:
If there are exploits then tell us about them otherwise you are just blowing smoke out your butt.



So out of all that you pick up on my noticing potential holes for team swapping large amounts of cash.
*sigh*

Tell you what... I'll give you my exploits after you change Fed Space into a viable training ground for new folks.

Make a Fed Space a training academy:
-- A place where new people can make a limited number of planets (say no more than 5)
-- With no more than 1 level deep of an SG (so new folks can see what an SG does)
-- No worries about being attacked while in Fed Space (UNLESS you get a bounty -- then ships and planets are fair game)
-- If the player dies in Real Space the planets will be there upon return (training purposes -- so you don't start from scratch with a mistake)
-- If the players die/suicide and don't recreate an account in 5 days the Feds take back the planets and put them up as target practice.
-- Target practice planets, make no money, make no new population, make no new resources, make no new defenses, and can not be captured. They are there for training purposes so new folks can see how the attack system works and people can see how the spy system works. Once the planet is defeated it is destroyed. No credits can be gained from target practice planets.
-- Attacks from ship to ship are possible in Fed Space but they are only SIMULATED attacks. No kill count is awarded. No damage is actually done. A note will be sent to the "defeated" ship about losing the simulated attack.

The above ideas will allow New Folks to see what the game is about and have a basic understanding of playing the game before they are forced into the big black where all the real action takes place.


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 Post subject: Re: Final Bounty Changes Added...
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:42 am 
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KZ, I like your newbie training ground idea.

What I dislike is you attitude toward fixing bugs. It's like you're trying to blackmail the dev team. "Do what I want with the game and I'll tell you about the exploit." I think that someone that really cares about improving the game would reveal exploits simply for the good of revealing them. I mean, after all the crap I've been through with PJ, I still have not stopped pointing them out when I see them. There have been times I said I would, just because he got me really ticked at the way he was treating me, a person trying to help him better the game, but it wasn't really true. And, in truth, I have not allowed my opinion of PJ to taint my opinions of his ideas (though I think he has allowed his opinion of me to taint his opinions of my ideas). He has continued to produce some good ones. And I don't think that the way he's handling the bounty thing is very bad. And I agree with him that a person shouldn't be immune to attack just because they're little. They shouldn't be able to get away with whatever they want to do just because they're smaller.

And on the matter of the exploit, it is the bounty system. I'll just point it out right here.

Player A wants to give 50T to player B right now. Putting it on a planet for capture or using team cash would take a few days, and the former wouldn't work if they're on the team.

So player A calls over player C, a friend. Player C gets in a pio and buys a pod. Player A puts a 50T bounty on him. Player B kills him and collects the money immediately.

So there. No more mystery. You mentioned two exploits, and I only know one, so I guess you still have a bit of leverage, but there goes half of it.

As far as bounties; everyone has known that it is flawed for as long as I've been playing. This has been an easy way to get rid of any bounty placed on you since as long as I remember.

My suggestion would be to implement the changes to the bounty system I've heard you all talking about, like podding the person in their biggest ship or something. I have a few (good, I think) ideas about the bounty system myself, but this isn't the topic for that.



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 Post subject: Re: Final Bounty Changes Added...
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:28 am 
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Kwae Zar wrote:
Tell you what... I'll give you my exploits after you change Fed Space into a viable training ground for new folks.


Ah, the John McCain strategy... "Elect me as President and I will tell you how I will get Bin Laden."

Sorry but bribery doesn't work here. Either tell us or don't.



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 Post subject: Re: Final Bounty Changes Added...
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:02 pm 
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Panama Jack wrote:
Kwae Zar wrote:
Tell you what... I'll give you my exploits after you change Fed Space into a viable training ground for new folks.


Ah, the John McCain strategy... "Elect me as President and I will tell you how I will get Bin Laden."

Sorry but bribery doesn't work here. Either tell us or don't.


Leave it to PJ to bring politics into this... You might as well vote Present PJ and be done ;)



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 Post subject: Re: Final Bounty Changes Added...
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:11 pm 
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Kwae Zar wrote:
Panama Jack wrote:
If there are exploits then tell us about them otherwise you are just blowing smoke out your butt.



So out of all that you pick up on my noticing potential holes for team swapping large amounts of cash.
*sigh*

Tell you what... I'll give you my exploits after you change Fed Space into a viable training ground for new folks.

Make a Fed Space a training academy:
-- A place where new people can make a limited number of planets (say no more than 5)
The above ideas will allow New Folks to see what the game is about and have a basic understanding of playing the game before they are forced into the big black where all the real action takes place.

I have always liked the idea of the training ground scenario however implementation isnt that easy. While you may think the changes are tail chasers they still solve some greater issues. Take a closer look at the current Main.

When was the last time someone got more than 3 bounties?
Transferring large sums of money to team mates and others is extremely tough.
Giving a ship away just wont happen. If a player can't affor to own the ship its going to Ewarp and or blow up. Same with the planets. You can only get planets and ships in your networth range. Now the bounty exploit that Val talked about I think we missed that one. A good fix is to force the bounty to only be taken should a player lose thier largest ship otherwise it hangs in limbo.

Now if there are others I have missed jump in. Are you even playing this round? Hard to judge something from the sidelines. We used to call em backseat drivers ;)



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 Post subject: Re: Final Bounty Changes Added...
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:12 pm 
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lol, guys, if what I posted isn't a bug, I'm going to use it ;) :P Just thought I'd put that warning out there.

Edit: Oh, somehow I missed Tarnus' last post :P


Last edited by Valience on Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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 Post subject: Re: Final Bounty Changes Added...
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:27 pm 
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Tarnus wrote:
While you may think the changes are tail chasers they still solve some greater issues.


The change log is all the proof I need to make an assessment. When was the last time something significant was changed in this game to IMPROVE the game for new folks? It hasn't. The last several rounds of tail chasing have been fixing up holes. Whether it is renaming SG entrances, team cash or bounty cheats.

AAT's continuing problem is the STEEP learning curve. In order to make this game flourish again (which I still remember fondly) we need to be able to attract and maintain new players.

Make the next investment of time in this game a step in the direction of making the game more palatable for new users. I know the people that I invited into the game took about 2 hours of flying around to decide to never come back again due to its complexity. These people still invest their time heavily in other web games (that I do play with them)... but never AAT again.


Val -
Cute bug! Never thought of that one! But not mine. =)

PJ -
Obama when asked about foreign policy experience = I am willing to listen to other foreign leaders and learn.
Press reaction = Wow! Neat. Wonderful!

Palin when asked about foreign policy experience = I am willing to listen to other foreign leaders and learn.
Press reaction = She isn't qualified.

Let's keep in mind who is running as VP and who is running as president.


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 Post subject: Re: Final Bounty Changes Added...
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:24 pm 
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Newbies are always going to be a problem in trying to learn the game. I am speaking from experience as I see this every day at school. Attack, attack, attack, they have to kill something. Trying to teach them to get into a postion to support attacking does not work.
Once PJ releases the next code, then I will look at trying to create a learning type game, some how control/limit the attacking.

:)



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