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 Post subject: Re: Main game changes
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:22 pm 
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sirmais wrote:
Tarnus wrote:


Besides, if you don't think it will effect you much then why are you so worried about it?



cos its coming unexpected and in the middle of the game.


Far from the middle of the game. Everyone else seems fine with it. As I said, its a balance change issue. As I said before we are limiting team cash and any ways around that we try to limit as well. It may not make players happy, but it makes the game fair for all. We've made in game changes before and really this doesn't effect you as long as you keep your planet commodities. Just means a player will have to actually work harder.



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 Post subject: Re: Main game changes
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:58 pm 
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Well that goes to show you how much I know about teams. I didn't know for sure that you could take these special commodities off of a teammates planet. But I guessed you could, just by looking at the rankings from past games, and seeing noticing certain things... Smaller players with huge ships hiding behind #1 rank. My answer to this was going to be; start from day one and trade myself to #1 then beat on certain people to see how they liked it. But I haven't really tried to follow through with that plan. I usually come late into the game, which is why I guess I haven't benefited from special planets. AT last, I don't really give a crap what changes are made, being that they improve the situation. I just want to enjoy this game and not put up with what I went through on some BNT servers. Some of those used to be what I call "Admin & friends" servers. Where friends of the admin said "jump" and teh admin said "How high?" . :)

Personally I think a couple of the teams (or single players) were kinda getting what they deserve so far this round, But it is better to get the changes out of the way that for for the good of the game. Don't forget that until you changed this, the highest ranked players could shoot anybody without much repercussion because the bounty was easily payed once they traded off there special comms. Sure the bounties got high after several of them, but I didn't notice where it was doing much good.


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 Post subject: Re: Main game changes
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:45 pm 
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A-Blitz wrote:
Personally I think a couple of the teams (or single players) were kinda getting what they deserve so far this round, But it is better to get the changes out of the way that for for the good of the game. Don't forget that until you changed this, the highest ranked players could shoot anybody without much repercussion because the bounty was easily payed once they traded off there special comms. Sure the bounties got high after several of them, but I didn't notice where it was doing much good.


Yeah I am not a big fan of the bounty kills. I may have to think of some more fixes there for next round.
Maybe if your bounty count is > 2 you can't trade newer commodities. :) Force em to have to wait a day or so to get that bounty paid off. Just brainstormin right now folks so don't go postal on me :) ... Yet



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 Post subject: Re: Main game changes
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:00 am 
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Hello

I've been playing eve for a few months now, and I've learned a few things while playing it. Give the players what they want by creating an area space in which there are no rules or laws. Call it "Outlaw Space" or something, no rules, no bounties, no way to survive unless you Build, Defend and KILL the enemy before they kill you. Tarnus and PJ, you both want to see a game where building and trading are the key element of the game(that's how it appears). Teams and individual players moving into that sort of environment have no choice but set up a team capable of building, defending and attacking. If an individual moves there it will only force them to get better at all 3.

I pop in from time to time to see the rankings and to see who is playing. There seems to be even fewer players signing up as of late. You guys have created a wonderful game, and i would like to see it grow. Unfortunately every major change like this one, you seem to drive off a few more players. Older players looking to return are turned away because they miss the good old days of killing everyone. Buy developing Federation/Alliance space and setting aside an area of "Outlaw" space(or what ever you want to call it) you appeal to everyone's taste. You will get people back into the game, attract new players, and everyone will talk about the EPIC AAT battles they have had for a long time to come.

1. You protect the new player still
2. You add a new element of game, instead of removing
3. You give the players more options as to how they want to play
4. You give the blood thirsty players a place to play(looking at you gunslinger :lol:)
5. Everyone gets what they want.
6. You will probably see a slow growth in new and old players in the game

That's just a brief rundown of the idea, there is a little more to and i would be happy to share it


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 Post subject: Re: Main game changes
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:38 pm 
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MadMArdigan666 wrote:
Hello

I've been playing eve for a few months now, and I've learned a few things while playing it. Give the players what they want by creating an area space in which there are no rules or laws. Call it "Outlaw Space" or something, no rules, no bounties, no way to survive unless you Build, Defend and KILL the enemy before they kill you. Tarnus and PJ, you both want to see a game where building and trading are the key element of the game(that's how it appears). Teams and individual players moving into that sort of environment have no choice but set up a team capable of building, defending and attacking. If an individual moves there it will only force them to get better at all 3.


While in theory I like the idea, and had mentioned it in the past to PJ. You would need some type of separation from the regular space so no one can accidentally get there. It also creates an interesting strategy that you probably didn't think of. If I have the team with the most credits and largest players, its in my best interest to build there. It makes it so anyone trying to get to me has to deal with me one on one. This has its good points and bad points, but an interesting strategy process.

Quote:
I pop in from time to time to see the rankings and to see who is playing. There seems to be even fewer players signing up as of late. You guys have created a wonderful game, and i would like to see it grow. Unfortunately every major change like this one, you seem to drive off a few more players. Older players looking to return are turned away because they miss the good old days of killing everyone. Buy developing Federation/Alliance space and setting aside an area of "Outlaw" space(or what ever you want to call it) you appeal to everyone's taste. You will get people back into the game, attract new players, and everyone will talk about the EPIC AAT battles they have had for a long time to come.


Lets face it, its not the game changes that run people off, this recent change only one person didn't like it, everyone else was all for it. And it really had no major effect on the players, just makes them use their own stuff. The fact is, I think I saw that top team taken out the same way they were taking other players out. Now the change wouldn't stop someone, but it certainly would have slowed them down.

The true reason you see less and less players playing is everyone likes pretty pictures and graphics, everyone has xbox, wii, ps3's. More and more people are playing those types of games. Even you are playing Eve, ask yourself why your playing Eve instead of AAT?

Now one thing we are looking at is doing a facebook version of the game, problem with that is scaling. Most facebook style games have 1000s of players, but lack the interactivity we already have in AAT, think about what would need to happen to get that many players into a game. Also think of the hardware and bandwidth costs that go with it. Running a large scale game can be expensive and there will always have to be away for it to pay for itself.


Quote:
1. You protect the new player still
2. You add a new element of game, instead of removing
3. You give the players more options as to how they want to play
4. You give the blood thirsty players a place to play(looking at you gunslinger :lol:)
5. Everyone gets what they want.
6. You will probably see a slow growth in new and old players in the game


I really don't think it will make the difference you think. Currently the bloodthirsty players still have a place to play, my bet is your not going to see many people building in there. Only a large player has a chance there, a new player would be insane to even consider it. Have you played a no-bounty tourney before? Once you get behind, you have no chance, so only the guys with the cash survive especially in a zone like your talking about. Now you will have a few risk takers try it, but my guess is that area will be very empty.



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 Post subject: Re: Main game changes
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:49 pm 
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I too have noticed the big drop in players in the main game.
I do notice in the early part of the game a lot of suicides..........

So what can we do about trying to bring more / new / old players to the game?????

I myself have a lot of students playing, but they struggle on the main as they just want to 'draw' blood from each other and miss on getting a good solid start first. :(

I thing we should get the tournaments back running, but I still need up to date code from PJ for that.

I agree that the graphics could be improved. Could we run some sort of competition on design new graphics????

Tarnus, you might want to move this into a seperate discussion?

Cheers



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 Post subject: Re: Main game changes
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:31 am 
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[quote="Tarnus"][quote="MadMArdigan666"]
The true reason you see less and less players playing is everyone likes pretty pictures and graphics, everyone has xbox, wii, ps3's. More and more people are playing those types of games. Even you are playing Eve, ask yourself why your playing Eve instead of AAT?
[quote]

The graphics are pretty in eve, but not the only reason for playing it. In the game I have a choice as to where i live and what i do, with no restrictions. I can Fight, build, mine all based on the skills i have. All choices I make have consequences. AAT has lost a lot of what i liked about it, so i went looking elsewhere.

The same code you use to create federation space could be used to create "Outlaw space"
The same code to link fed space sectors to each other could be used to link "Outlaw Space" sectors together with only a few links back to controlled space
Assigning a value to the sectors in "Outlaw Space" and associating that value to zero restrictions

Give players the options they want while maintaining yours and pj's vision of this game. That was a game i liked, not the level and balanced game it has become. This way you can have both.


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 Post subject: Re: Main game changes
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:58 am 
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MadMArdigan666 wrote:
The graphics are pretty in eve, but not the only reason for playing it. In the game I have a choice as to where i live and what i do, with no restrictions. I can Fight, build, mine all based on the skills i have. All choices I make have consequences. AAT has lost a lot of what i liked about it, so i went looking elsewhere.


Now surely Eve has some type of limitations. Otherwise there would be the same issues. No one is willing to pay for something if they are constantly beat into the ground with no way to move up. Not playing, I have no idea other than shear expanse of the universe in order for it to be hard to survive against large unstoppable opponents.
Now if you can tell me how they solve those problems, I might be more open to a suggestion like that. My guess is there is more of a skills leveling system. Something we have been talking about. Otherwise its just a free for all and I can get that in any FPS game. I'd much rather have a strategy game than a fps. Strategy games require you to think and find ways around any situation.


Quote:
Give players the options they want while maintaining yours and pj's vision of this game. That was a game i liked, not the level and balanced game it has become. This way you can have both.


If we would lose the balance I guarantee we would lose more players. I see more suicides with less balance than with more. Not everyone likes to be beat on forever. Eventually they go away and never come back, I can count at least 10 good players that no longer will play because they were beat on with less balance.

You have to balance overall, you can't give the attackers everything they want or they will have no targets. If attacking was what everyone wanted all the time, why is thunderdome mostly empty the majority of the time? Its fun for a little while, but gets boring over time.



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 Post subject: Re: Main game changes
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:14 am 
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Alf wrote:
I too have noticed the big drop in players in the main game.
I do notice in the early part of the game a lot of suicides..........

So what can we do about trying to bring more / new / old players to the game?????

I thing we should get the tournaments back running, but I still need up to date code from PJ for that.


You will more than likely see more suicides as result of constantly being killed rather than when someone is just learning the game. The last 3 suicides in the game, my guess 2 of the three were because they were getting pummeled to death. The other one looks to be a new player that didnt quite get it.

We have tried to make the initial start for the players easier but there is still some things that are lacking, my guess is the new player gets off in real space and then they are hopelessly lost and can't get back to fed space where they are safe.

How do we get new players? The facebook and mobile app options would be the easiest ways, which we are looking at. Other than that I am open to suggestions.

Tourney would be fine, but dunno how many would be interested in them. I don't think you had a great turnout the last round did you?


Alf wrote:
I agree that the graphics could be improved. Could we run some sort of competition on design new graphics????
Tarnus, you might want to move this into a seperate discussion?


Problem with graphics is you need to keep things tight and small or in a web based game you slow things down. We would need to look at a more client server model, thats actually the way all these other games have been doing things. Not an easy change as its a complete rewrite in how things work, would be cool, but the time it would take to goto something like that would be prohinbitive since we can't afford to work on that and feed our families too.

Yeah may need a diff discussion on how to bring in new players. I still feel if you can take a new player under your wing for a bit you can teach them enough to survive (Even take an older player, even they can be taught a thing or two) :)



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 Post subject: Re: Main game changes
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:21 pm 
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TH (Yes the daily transfer limit should be in effect like it always has so you can transfer those.)

Actually, I think the team cash transfer has been disabled completely. We tried it just the other day. Team planets, cash transfer allowed, etc. Didn't let us transfer.
BTW, when it was enabled, Team Mate "A" could transfer x amount to Team Mate "B" planet. Then, "B" could transfer from a different "A" planet, effectively doubling the amount received.


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 Post subject: Re: Main game changes
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:30 pm 
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Regarding newer players suicides, maybe bring back the Guides with a new player message encouraging them to seek counsel.
Or, how about 3 or 4 veterans recruiting newbies to team with, then act as coaches and pit the newbie teams against each other for in-game rewards.


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 Post subject: Re: Main game changes
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:11 pm 
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Texas Outlaw wrote:
Regarding newer players suicides, maybe bring back the Guides with a new player message encouraging them to seek counsel.
Or, how about 3 or 4 veterans recruiting newbies to team with, then act as coaches and pit the newbie teams against each other for in-game rewards.


I *TRY* to do so, but you keep killing them :?

:razz:


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 Post subject: Re: Main game changes
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:20 pm 
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There is a skill leveling component to Eve, but i am not suggesting making your game like eve. Perhaps looking at a multitude of sources for both good and bad components might be an idea. I am sure other games have run into this same type of issue at one point or another, so there solutions may lead us to a solution.

the same code with a little tweaking and a color change could make the space that has zero restriction. The code used creates a green background and a green link and also all the restriction that come with federation space. that code also generates a much larger percentage of links to fed space than other systems.

change the color to red for both link and icon in the map and use the code to generate links with only a small percentage leading back to safer space.

You are right, this sort of change may not have that desired affect of attracting new and old players to the game. Every changed made the can't be the correct one, but to learn the difference you need to try it. A lot of the changes made in the middle of a round are knee jerk reactions to events that have happened or are happening in the current rounds. the best changes i have seen in this game are the ones that are planned out and implemented in a scheduled manner. I miss the old days of AAT .2 and getting my behind kicked by Gunslinger, simply because it was a game with fewer restrictions. In many ways this combines the best elements of all AAT versions.


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 Post subject: Re: Main game changes
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:15 am 
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Well, having played EVE for a very long time, I do have to agree with Mardigan about the "lawless" space. Although, you can still get attacked and killed in higher security space. In EVE, they have a security rating for each solar system, 1.0 is the highest security, and 0.0 is the lowest. Anything below 0.5 is considered mostly lawless, although there are still some sentry guns near the gates to other systems and near space stations in the "lowsec" sectors (0.1 - 0.4). There is basically zero protection in "nullsec" (0.0). Players have a security standing, which is affected by PVP, killing innocent people will lower your security standing, so that -1.0 standing you can't enter 1.0 space, -2.0 you can't enter 0.9, etc (I can't remember the exact numbers, as my security standing is very high in the positive range.)

You can still attack someone in high sec, but within 10 seconds the peacekeeping forces will arrive and shoot you, so it is called suicide-ganking. You can also still shoot your own corporation members in high-sec (For fun...) or people who are at war with you, or people with low security standings. Also if someone steals from you or shoots at you, you can shoot them.

However, the main draw to EVE is that it is a virtual sandbox, where you are allowed to play however you want to. You can be a pirate and shoot people, you can run missions make money and pass the time, you can mine asteroids and ice fields, you can research/invent things, you can be a producer that builds ships and equipment, you can be a trader who buys/sells to make a living, you can be a mercenary who gets paid to fight, or you can be a scammer. Everything is open, there is no carebear cuddling from the dev team, if someone scams you out of your life's work, well, learn from it and move on. If you are flying a T3 Strategic Cruiser that took you 4 years to learn to pilot and get the money for, and some random group of assholes want to destroy it, then they can. Worse, if you are flying an irreplaceable ship, one that was only given away for a certain event, or as the prize for something, you can still lose it and never be able to replace it.

Sure, EVE has pretty graphics, and some people (Like my brother...) are all about graphics. Personally, I think content is the main thing and graphics are secondary. That's why I've played, and still play, games with shitty graphics in addition to ones with pretty graphics. The reason I don't play AAT isn't because of graphics. If AAT had graphics like EVE did, I'd have to download it and it wouldn't be the same thing as AAT was meant to be (A free, browser-based game you can play from anywhere.) Certainly, updating some graphics wouldn't be a bad thing, but the reason I don't play AAT is because I don't like the direction the game keeps going. It keeps getting farther and farther from a team strategy game, and keeps trying to kill any possible way that help from teammates is accomplished. The only purpose for teams will be just talking pretty soon. And sorry, I prefer using Ventrilo for that, too.


P.S.
Not being in the game, I guess my opinion doesn't matter all that much, but I still have to say that is an annoying way to make changes, IE. mid-round.



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