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 Post subject: Independent Planet Auto Upgrade
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 2:03 am 
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Many of you have keep thinking that the indies spend all of their money upgrading themselves all of the time when in fact they don't. :)

Below is an image that shows some independent planets in the game that have just upgraded themselves.

There were 36 independent planets when this snapshot was taken. Out of those 36 planets only 11 of them decided to upgrade themselves. None of the planets moved any planet torps or fighters into sector defense.

At the bottom it says "Next Indy Update 563 minutes" and that is wrong. It should be ticks instead of minutes. Each tick is 5 minutes so the next time any of the independent planets will have to upgrade themselves is 46.9 hours from the time they just upgraded or almost TWO DAYS. None of the independent planets will have a chance to upgrade themselves or their sector defenses for almost two full days.

Each time the independent planets upgrade themselves the counter for the next time is changed. It can range from 25 hours to 50 hours between each time they can upgrade themselves. That is a very, very long time in a game like this.

And if you noticed the indies do not spend all of their money upgrading.

Just thought everyone might want to get an idea as to what they are doing in the background. ;)


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 Post subject: ok.
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:04 am 
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I have to point out a couple of things again.
First I hate arguing with you. It always seem like you take it personally.

Again, this cannot be done as a regular player. Indy doesn't have to fund a ship. As a builder or attacker, indy has an advantage in planets they can upgrade without having to have money in reserver.

Also, look at the planets you have shown. Very little money percentage wise.
Sure they don't use all of their money on each upgrade, but they can use a lot percentage wise. You have several that use under 5 percent, but one or two that blew nearly 70 percent on upgrades. If you have a planet that just went indy with near 90 percent money on it, that is a lot of upgrades the first time if the tick hits and it used 70 percent of money on planet for upgrades. Way more than the person that built the planet can fight to get back. Way more than most people in the game can take if the player is in the top 20 or so.

Again, I think if you added up all the money on those planets and put it even on the lowest level planet, you still could not hit 90 percent money.
So it hurts both builders and attackers having such strong indies.
I really hate it when I lose a planet in a sector and can no longer own it because I cannot take the indy in the middle. I can't even risk nova bombing now because if I can't take it in a normal fight, how can I risk the attack from nova bombing now.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:46 am 
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Maybe if the indys used to be yours you wpuld be able to nova the planets without having them execute a SD dump. Of oourse, if its your sector and you have any SD in the sector they shouldnt be able to do that anyways.

Just a thought.


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 Post subject: still
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 12:27 pm 
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you have the problem of blowing them up by accident.
I have not tried the nova a planet directly.
Is that all they do, send out sd if you try?
I thought they attacked you directly.


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 Post subject: Re: still
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 2:13 pm 
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Ash wrote:
you have the problem of blowing them up by accident.
I have not tried the nova a planet directly.
Is that all they do, send out sd if you try?
I thought they attacked you directly.


Yes but its a low percentage and a risk if ya want it bad enough. If there are no fighters in the sector or you own the fighters currently in the sector the planet will not force a sector D attack. If the sector is empty it will try to throw some SD out in its own defence after you nova the planet. So no direct attack if you own the SD.


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 Post subject: Re: ok.
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 5:25 pm 
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Ash wrote:
Again, this cannot be done as a regular player. Indy doesn't have to fund a ship. As a builder or attacker, indy has an advantage in planets they can upgrade without having to have money in reserver.


Actually it CAN be done by a regular player. Even if the indy were upgrading their ship it is still possible to upgrade the planets.

BTW, the indy planets in the LAST beta and before I created this thread were NOT upgrading themselves at all. :) So if you had problems capturing indy planets in the last beta it was not because they were upgrading themselves because they weren't.

Ash wrote:
Also, look at the planets you have shown. Very little money percentage wise.
Sure they don't use all of their money on each upgrade, but they can use a lot percentage wise. You have several that use under 5 percent, but one or two that blew nearly 70 percent on upgrades.


Now you are assuming that the planets are blowing a lot of their money on upgrading in big jumps when they aren't. Every tech level that was upgraded by the planets in that list was upgraded by only ONE level. With Fosgor Fighters upgraded from 242 to 243, Beams 179 to 180, Torps 180 to 181, Shields 239 to 240 and 245 to 246. None of them upgraded multiple levels on any tech. Sure the Independent player doesn't care about credits. The Independent player only cares about protecting it's resources. By doing that they do not generate as much money as YOU would and they definitely are not able to upgrade their planets as FAST as you can with your faster increasing cash. In otherwords the Independent players planets are HANDICAPED and can't protect themselves as fast as you could protect your planets. And they definitely can't protect themselves fast enough to prevent being taken over by other players ships.

Ash wrote:
So it hurts both builders and attackers having such strong indies.


Apparently it doesn't. How do you think Big gets so high so fast? He is definitely an attacker and he purposefully goes after Independent planets and takes them over because they usually are EASIER to take than other players planets and are worth far more than a player planet that concentrates on just making cash.

Ash wrote:
I really hate it when I lose a planet in a sector and can no longer own it because I cannot take the indy in the middle. I can't even risk nova bombing now because if I can't take it in a normal fight, how can I risk the attack from nova bombing now.


When your planet goes independent it loses from 0-25% off each tech level. Even if it was an average of 10% lost and your planet had all 200's then they would all drop to 180's. That's a pretty good drop and if you can't take it back then you haven't been upgrading your ship enough with the money you are making at the 90% mark on your planets.

If you had really bad luck and they all hit at 25% you would drop from 200's to 150's.

The way Big plays definitely disproves the argument that indies become too hard to take back.



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 Post subject: well
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 7:48 am 
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Then planet auto upgrading will just make it worse.
As it is, the planets have to be high enough in levels, that they can build that outragous amount of armor.
Again, no one can sustain both because the money levels will be too high to get more than 10 percent on a planet bulit up like that.
Now not only will they be high levels holding less than 5 percent, but they will upgrade and get even bigger.

Perhapes big has gotten lucky and hits them just as they go indy. Perhapes he get new player indy's so they didn't build them up as much.

I too have gotten lucky and found a full planet with 0 levels before, but that is not the norm.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 11:54 am 
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Don'r compare the main settings too much with the current beta... I had made some armor adjustments but now they seem pretty crazy. The newer beta settings are much better than the current main. The indies I have seen havent been too tough. Course finding them is the tough part. In a game thats been ruinning as long as the main has, you may find some tough indies, then you just have to decide if the indy is worth the risk or you would rather take on easier targets :) Even My indies in the main are crazy, course I havent played the main real seriously for a while. :)


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 Post subject: Re: well
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 12:11 pm 
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Ash wrote:
As it is, the planets have to be high enough in levels, that they can build that outragous amount of armor.


Independent planets have absolutely no control over how much armor they have or the armor level just like any other player. The amount of armor and the armor tech level is generated the exact same way for every planet irrespective of who owns it.



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 2:48 pm 
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well, I'm not exactly sure what ash is saying, indies are never too hard to take except for the first day or two perhaps.

the only problem I have, is that indies take more to beat than a normal player's planets for the most part (once the game gets going, some of the more experienced players start having planets that are much larger and harder to break, as they gain cash to do so.) the problem comes from the fact that indies do not care about credit production. they aren't trying to raise their score, they aren't trying to build a ship, they just upgrade their planets, and each one has like 1-5% of the max credits on it. that means that indies aren't really worth the effort required to break them in most cases (near the start, once you are able to, they can give a nice boost, but after about 5-7 days, they are worthless...) why? because you can spend a small amount of cash, and build a planet that, while it doesn't have the same tech levels as an indy, it has better cash, and better cash production.



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